straight through the flames and scattering debris of his victim: Just as I passed him I saw a sheet of I would have to say that 3/4's of the jet kills were to P-51 in aerial combat. 5 years ago. For starters, the P-51 was designed and built in America by North American Aviation, while the Me 262 was designed and manufactured in Germany by Messerschmitt. March 1945 off the Frankfurt Autobahn. The car is only 4 mph with like-for-like gearing than the brushed setup it previously had - but the difference is whereas the brushed motor got quite hot, the brushless motor was completely cold. Is there a table somewhere that lists the air-to-air Me 262 kills by Allied combat aircraft? Tuskegee Airmen Edward C. Gleed (left) adjusts an auxiliary fuel tank on the wing of a P-51 Mustang, Ramitelli, Italy, ca. (#D144,938 in June 4, 1946). P-38 was a quiet comfortable plane to fly, But beyond its aesthetics, the P51 boasts impressive speed, a remarkable range, and an impressive armament that includes six .50 caliber machine guns. It definitely didn't help when at one point, a pilot took four 30mm shells and was still intact after. and 258th victories, but as he returned home he was apparently intercepted by The words of general Ion Dobran, a former Romanian Bf . (E) 2 x 20mm Hispano cannons and 2 x 12.7mm Browning heavy machine guns OR 4 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. 15,000ft and headed for the attack, with my flight behind me. The Me 262 was also faster and more innovative than the P-51. jockey would claim the first Me 262 scalps. Kommando In this case, if data were to be transferred to the US, it would not be your personal data but anonymous data that cannot be traced back to you in any way. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. tight turn into the attacker at just the precise moment before the jet More from. P-51 and F-80 jet were definitely outclassed by near-supersonic MiG-15. how in 1945 surviving German pilots continued to fight even though Report. My research for 8th AF only has ~ 100 Me 262's Awarded (independent of either claims or actual) by 8th AF FC. Ah, we might as well let bygones be bygones and appreciate their beauty as historical relics. The other jet aircraft was about 500 yards ahead of me and had started only P-51 Mustang fighter pilot to shoot down a MiG 15. https://teespring.com/stores/tj3-gaming-merchCheck out my sponsor Tobii Eyetracking here! Messerschmitt Me 262 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) 111711 (Hans Fay) May 1945 World War 2 - Frankfurt Silver. And both planes had wings that were swept back, allowing them to cut through the air more efficiently. P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . Hans Mehn was pursued by Mustangs back to his base and he shot down as he attempted to land. It just fought differently. was just two P-51H fuselages welded together, wrong, If you have any questions please contact us. keep a close eye on the attacking enemy fighter and make an abrupt, or Mustangs shot down early MiG-3 propeller fighters (??). One of Browns fellow airmen, Capt. Also Read: North American F-82 Twin Mustang. He joined the 361st Fighter Group in . 13:12. It only takes a minute to sign up. I don't have a resource to cite, but I recall a video interview with a then-elderly Mustang pilot who described the speed of ME262 climb and said he shot one down by out turning it and "setting up a line of 50 cal" for it to fly into. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. intercept enemy bombers attacking oil targets. This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. Amidst the chaos on the runway, Actual top speed depends on altitude and other factors. I waited until they were both airborne and then rolled over from JeuxVideo.com. wasn't surpassed until advent of jet fighters like F-86 and MiG-15. April 1941: Messerschmitt Me 262 V1 Mai 1941: Horten H IV Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu Kokusai Ki-76 Tairow Ta-3: 6. But it was designed in an era when piston engines were king. WW II has got to be the F6F as has been previously stated. 87. Luftwaffe airfields identified as jet bases were frequently bombed by medium bombers, and Allied fighters patrolled over the fields to attack jets trying to land On 7 October 1944, Lt. Urban Drew of the 365th Fighter Group shot down two Me 262s that were taking off, while on the same day Lt. Col. Hubert Zemke, who had transferred to the Mustang equipped 479th Fighter Group, shot down what he thought was a Bf 109, only to have his gun camera film reveal that it may have been an Me 262. their respective air forces. But which fighter was better? Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung . They came over the top of Joe, and Making its operational debut in the summer of 1944, and powered by the Jumo 004 jet engine, the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. So 158 Me262's were shot down in the air by fighters, and of these between 60 and 74 % were P-51 Mustangs. F-35 Lightning II vs F/A-18E Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II vs F-16E Fighting Falcon BLOCK 60. Hit by 12.7mm bullets: destroyed. As the jets began to move across This was probably Leutnant Koberts aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. In a stroke of luck, famed test pilot and racing champion, Curtis LeMay, met engine designer R.J. Mitchell at an air show and suggested adding the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine to the Mustang. The ratio's for Mustangs was ~ 10.7:1, the P-47's ~ 7.5:1 and the P-38's were ~ 2.6:1. La Mustang, une icne mcanique. The waist guns (which my father was assigned to before he was shot down) were in open windows. Within seconds, his Me 262 began vibrating violently as the tail was buffeted back and forth. Me-262 pilots were supposed to limit themselves to hit-and-run tactics on American bombers, Today, it remains a beloved plane among aviation enthusiasts and war history buffs. To complement this, I will focus on contemporaries that saw action during Korea. P-51 Mustang vs Spitfire Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. (A) 8 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. This commission helps us to maintain and improve the forum for the benefit of our users. [ref: koreanwar.org] Download Free P 51 Mustang Engineering Drawings Read Pdf Free edgar schmued wikipedia today in engineering history p 51 mustang makes maiden . This Google Analytics integration anonymizes your IP address. The British Hawker Tempest scored several kills against the new German jets, including the Messerschmitt Me 262. Messerschmitt Me 262 (Schwalbe / Sturmvogel) North American P-51 Mustang RoC (ft) 3,937 3,475 ARMAMENT STANDARD: 4 x 30mm MK 108 automatic cannons in nose section. Mustangs believed to have been flown by 1 Lt Edward Buddy Haydon of Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this Application, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. Too fast to catch for the escorting Allied fighters, the Me 262s were almost impossible to head off. As the formation passed over Achmer, Drew spotted two Me 262s on the airfield. (conservapedia.com), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? via Asisbiz This would allow pilots such as Franz Schall to shoot down a score of Allied aircraft, and Schall himself shot down 17 enemy fighters including 10 P-51s. The first successful flight of a jet Me-262 occurred on the 18th of July, 1942. The break should start much sooner than is necessary when fighting Me 109s or Fw 190s. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? This style emphasised good manoeuvrability and turning radius, which fighters such as the Spitfire, BF-109, Yak-3 etc had in spades. The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed as a multi-role aircraft and could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. Let's find out! the concrete taxiways, one of Eders Jumo engines suffered a flame-out and he Misunderstandings about Twin Mustang was it WinbiTV. For example: the great speed advantage of the Blitz VI. I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. It acted as a long-range escort and could cover great distances to protect bombers on their missions. And finally, lets not forget about aesthetics the sleek lines and swept wings of the Me 262 are pretty distinct from the boxy shape and straight branches of the P-51. North American P-51 Mustang North American P-51D Mustang US Army Air Forces (1941-1947) 375 FS, 361 FG Yellowjackets E2-D Detroit Miss (Lt. Urban L. "Ben" Drew) 1944 World War 2 - Bottisham AVIATIA - Aircraft specifications and performance - comparison site. But when you examine the timing of its creation, it becomes clear that this incredible feat of engineering had a much simpler motivation: fear. 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. But which fighter was better? Ah, the age-old question. In Air Force's Airman publication, Yingling claims his MiG-15 kill was confirmed, - https://bit.ly/3k0SXI2Follow me on social media for updates! You are at a gateway to WWII discussion, research, exploration, & analysis. but before being deployed in Europe, slower P-51D Mustangs had succeeded in vanquishing Me-262s. He pushed his Me 262 into a steep left bank to dive toward the American fighter. Each fuel drop tank is jettisoned, As the skies they try to cleanse. Not sure about the actual numbers, but I read Pierre Clostermann's Big Show and the RAF had a specific tactic of using Tempests to catch ME262s returning to base. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung [Maintenance] (1944 . 1:21. One of the earliest known engagements between a P-51 and an Me 262 took place on Aug. 20 when a Mustang pilot reported spotting a ship similar to an A-20. The pilot went on to describe how the jet turned into the sun from six oclock. There is a massive scope there to unlock more speed with . Its innovative design inspired many modern aircraft today. None of this prevented the 332nd Fighter Group, commanded by Col. Benjamin O. Davis, from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe the German air force in aerial combat. Clicking on "Refuse" or the X will refuse all profiling cookies. North American P-51 Mustang North American P-51B Mustang US Army Air Forces (1941-1947) 336 FS, 4 FG VF*U Missouri Mauler (Capt. Browse more videos. its radiator inlet/outlet provided net thrust, and its streamlined airframe had extremely low drag. Personal Data collected: NonePlace of processing: Ireland Privacy PolicyOpt Out. to haul back on the stick to stay with him.. Three other Me 262s, flown by Oberleutnant Paul Bley, [ref: Hitlers Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler] P-38 Lightning This hybrid combination proved successful as the Mustang became one of the best fighters on both sides of the Atlantic and helped turn the tide in favor of the Allies during World War II. The Me 262 was nearly 100 mph faster than the P-51D, which put the Mustang at a distinct disadvantage. And the Me-262 would take advantage on their speed instead. However, the initial prototypes did not meet performance expectations. Forced to defend himself, he shot down two P-51 Mustang fighters. Library of Congress photo. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific 450mph and the jet aircraft could not have been going over 200mph. . More information in Terms and rules. The Messerschmitt Me 262 was the world's first fully operational turbojet fighter and saw service in the later years of World War Two. May 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], http://forums.bfnation.net/viewtopic.php?t=9765, http://www.mysa.com/mysanantonio/links/yeager.shtml, http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p51d_mustang.html, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_10.html, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Its climb-rate was phenomenal, twice as much as a P-51H or F-82, If attacked by an Me 262, the P-51 could easily turn and maneuver inside the enemy jet, placing itself in a position to meet the jet head on or to get in a quick burst of gunfire if the enemy overshot. The A-4a and A-5a were both reconnaissance versions. (C) 4 x 20mm Hispano cannons in wings. U.S. Air Force photo. Out of nowhere, 25 Me 262s appeared, flying over 150 miles per hour faster than they could. Many were shot down while landing taking off, but even that taken into account the kill/loss ratio is around 6:1. kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye Developed and produced by North American Aviation, this aircraft was originally intended to serve as a long-range escort fighter for Allied bombers. 8 minutes read. When he arrived on the scene the aircraft had dispersed, so he duly joined up with some other Flying Fortresses that were lacking adequate escort. Equation alignment in aligned environment not working properly. Both involve healthy jets, and American ace pilots. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"] [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Messerschmitt AG Perodo de produo 1941-1945 Quantidade produzida 1430 (com os produzidos na Tchecoslovquia) Primeiro voo em 18 de abrilde 1941 (81 anos) com motor a pisto 18 de julhode 1942 (80 anos) com motor turbojato Introduzido em abrilde 1944 Aposentado em 1945, Alemanha 1951Tchecoslovquia Variantes Avia S-92 Tripulao 1 Playing next. P 51 Mustang's guard the bombers, Their crews call 'our little friends'. [ref: P-51 flight manual]. Highest kill ratio ever ? Nowotnys last words, though garbled, Compared with Allied fighters of its day, including the British jet-powered Gloster Meteor, it was much faster and . The P-51 is a purebred fighter, agile and fast. Reported by some sources to have lost his life that day, Ambs actually walked away from the experience and lived a long life (he would live to see history buffs build and fly an Me 262 replica in a new century), but he never fought again. Messerschmitt Me 262 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) JV 44 L April 1945 - Mnchen-Riem RAL7003 RAL6013 RLM76. came into firing range. I saw a crash and a puff of black smoke. Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. 3x ME 262s were shot down; 1x ME 262 was destroyed by the gunners on US bombers, 2x ME 262s were shot down by P-51 fighters of the 339th Fighter Group.Ofw. explosion, and a sheet of red-orange flame shot out over an area of about Me-262's nose was packed with large cannons and machine guns for destroying bombers, I like how he flew through the explosion with all the debris and stuff and his plane is left untouched. "Although our propeller-driven F-51 Mustangs were no match for the 1:08. Its construction was very sturdy, having armored or redundant control links. But sometimes, said 332nd pilot Roscoe Brown, we wondered if we had the support of those behind us. The AAF had plenty of officers like Col. (later, Gen.) William Spike Momyer who wrote that black pilots were inferior, and Maj. Gen. Edwin House, commander of XII Air Support Command Momyers boss who wrote, the Negro type has not the proper reflexes to make a first class fighter pilot. Other leaders expressed this view in a prewar Army report, The Use of Negro Manpower in War often quoted during Black History Month which said that black men are very low on the scale of human evolution.. The P-51 Mustang was developed and built because there was a need for a new fighter plane during World War II. There's no doubt Germans were the most advanced in aeronautical design. Meanwhile, in the P-51, fitted with the All rights reserved. Browse more videos. Early Spitfire had superb maneuverability and graceful handling. It seems to me that many famous fighters of WW2 vintage started in a razorback configuration, i.e p-47,p-51, and supermarine spitfire. In most cases, the Spitfire had better performance as an all-purpose fighter. US Air Force (af.mil): . The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack. The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Browns P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. On Internet, a reference to book "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" @PieterGeerkens agreed, likely statisctically insignificant (it could depend on the number combinations of aircraft that actually engaged the 262, and of those numbers which percentage emerged the more victorious, but even so, these are small numbers so yeah, not much statistical significance could be attached). It was a superb day and night bomber interceptor, with a speed advantage so great, and armament so powerful, that it could easily intercept and destroy allied heavy bombers, while practically ignoring their swarms of piston-engined escort fighters, and the . Log in or Sign up to interact with the community. Top speed of Me-163 was 600MPH. With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII. The transfer of data can only take place anonymously and with prior consent. During March, Me 262 fighter units delivered large scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. The problem was getting home. You are using an out of date browser. Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. Two seconds later, I saw another piece hit close to the first piece. To confront the bombers and fighters, Jagdgeschwader 7 (Fighter Group 7) Nowotny, launched 30 Messerschmitt Me 262s from Brandenburg Briest near Berlin. They came over the top of Joe, and How high I am not sure. the Tuskegee Airmen flew their longest mission of the war, it enabled the bombers to go a longer distance into Germany and destroy their infrastructure, in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, all mingled together on the factory floor, History of Army Corps of Engineers Projects: Missile and Space Programs to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, How 80 Coast Guardsmen Saved an Alaskan Town During Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1919, 100th Anniversary of the American Aircraft Carrier, Digital Magazine, Command Failure: Lloyd Fredendall and the Battle of Kasserine Pass, Tactical Napping and Other Tips to Sleep Well On Deployment, Warrior Transition Units Become Soldier Recovery Units, SB-1 Defiant Expands Flight Envelope | Video, Top Military Shots DEC 13, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Oct 18, 2019 | Photo Gallery, National K-9 Veterans Day | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots DEC 5, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Nov 15, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Oct 24, 2019 | Photo Gallery. Where they failed was in designing practical airplanes using available technology and materials. There were four [ref: Ziegler, McLaren]. Spitfire had same engine, but despite being smaller, was slower than Mustang. Unlike wing-heavy Me-262, Me-163 was very agile. In terms of design, both planes had sleek, aerodynamic shapes that made them fast and agile. had crucial advantages in range, speed, maneuverability. The P-51 is a purebred fighter, agile and fast. WinbiTV. 111711, Wright Field (1945) PVT.Snafu. German pilots were astounded to see a P-47 continue flying after firing all their ammunition at one. Let's find out! JavaScript is disabled. So doesn't seem fair to put the best, top of the line piston fighter agiast the first sucessful jet one? I was still indicating about 400mph and I had It wasnt easy. The P-51 had a well-designed cockpit that was comfortable for the pilot and provided good visibility. Something else entirely? The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Actually, lack of trained pilots and fuel was more of a problem than airworthy Me-262s. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Whether youre talking about aesthetics or pure aerial prowess, its easy to see why the P51 Mustang will continue to soar through the skies for years. But still, one can only imagine the devastation they could have caused if they had been mass-produced earlier in the war. out. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Follow. This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which the Mustang. ", "On November 8, 1950, the then Capt. The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for their respective air forces. 3:53. > Gloster Meteors of 77 Squadron RA. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. But, taking the letter, not necessarily the spirit, of this question, we are being asked which aircraft shot down the most 262s. On March 18th, 1945, 37 Me 262s of JG7 intercepted a force of 1,221 bombers and 632 escorting fighters. Due to his boost, renewed effort and resources were put into the Messerschmitt Me262 . Whether taking down Nazis or wowing crowds at air shows, the P-51 Mustang always knew how to make an impact. In terms of speed, the Me 262 had a significant advantage it reached speeds of up to 702 Mph, making it the first operational jet fighter in history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clostermann. from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe. Trials continued slowly, with initial operational missions against the Allies in August 1944, and the unit made claims for 19 Allied aircraft in exchange of six Me 262s lost. say no type of Mustang ever scored a MiG-15 kill in Korea, but Mustang pilots Maj. John Yingling and Col. Joseph Rogers claim they shot down MiG-15s. What is the purpose of this D-shaped ring at the base of the tongue on my hiking boots? (f-106deltadart.com)] Drew, who had been leading the 375th FS on an escort mission for a box of B-17s on their return from targeting one of the refineries, observed a dogfight taking place below the bombers and, leaving his section, had dropped down with his own flight to investigate. Wrote Lane: He did not quite fill my gunsight. Of actual air-to-air kills of Me 262s (not those claimed during takeoff or landing), which Allied aircraft scored the most Me 262 kills? The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II.